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Prior WWL installments on the Ukrainian Disaster, with firsthand accounts are here:

Postcards From the Ukraine

Postcard from the Ukraine II: Factions, Putin and Painted Corners

Cries from the Ukraine: Save Donbass People

(as always, may only be reprinted with express permission)

Ethnic cleansing is a very strong term, yet it is the only applicable term for the systematic slaughter of those resisting Fascism in the Ukraine - most of whom are target for their Russian heritage.

eth·nic cleans·ing

noun: ethnic cleansing

    the mass expulsion or killing of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society.

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Via my friend living in the Ukraine, Dmitri  (Дмитрий Колесник):

"What we see now in Ukraine is a terror against own people unleashed by militaries and far-right squads. The soldier of far-right battalion Donbass Oleh Dub relates about recent ‘cleansing’ of the village of Nikolayevka near Slavyansk. As he says he witnessed how an unarmed person was shot down. “Our bad chiefs intimidated the soldiers before and indoctrinated them with info that there are no ‘our’ people or civilians in the village – only separatists. And, therefore, we have to make a harsh cleansing, to throw grenades into all ‘dark corners’ and shoot at everybody who seems suspicious” – said Oleh Dub

“Only my unit kept guns on safety devices and didn’t use grenades. While others threw grenades into all the directions – into every hole… A man in a T-shirt and sport trousers wento out into his backyard and those paranoids have shot him down. He was unarmed”.
- Oleh Bub

Dmitri:  "The soldier also tells that there were no ‘separatists’ in that village. Soon the chief of the battalion S. Semenchenko called the soldier Oleh Dub ‘a spy’. The soldier was imprisoned."


Since our last report, the Right Sector has been marching South and Eastward, overtaking many small towns.  Shortly after the May 2nd massacre in Odessa some soldiers had been laying down arms, switching sides, sickened by killing their own.  

The influx of US funding to the tune of a cool billion, and IMF sent the first 3.9 billion of the promised 17 billion, the EU who sent 100 million euros in May had been a game changer.

Since then, the flow of blood money, and weaponry to support the Fascist Right Sector has only increased.  Obama has pledged not only another billion, but to send troops to train them.

Since March, the White House has approved more than $23 million in security assistance to Ukraine. Now the US is providing additional $5 million aid for "the provision of body armor, night vision goggles and additional communications equipment."

The White House said other aid for Ukraine has included 300,000 ready-to-eat meals and financing for medical supplies, helmets, hand-held radios and other equipment.

"The United States is absolutely committed to standing behind the Ukrainian people not just in the coming days, weeks, but in the coming years," Obama said.

Obama said it was critical that other countries also support Poroshenko and Ukraine’s new government, including by training its military and police.

Now, Nato has added their intent to support the Fascists, with an open wallet. They added directly sending WEAPONRY to their filthy laundry list of supporting ethnic cleansing.  Both the last announcements came right as the Ukranian Regime announced they are using scientific research funding for weapon production.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said he will reduce the country’s “useless” science programs to finance the production of drones and precision weapons.

“There will be no more spending of billions of people’s money, taxpayers’ money on useless research programs, which were used as a tool for theft,” said a statement published on the president’s website early on Wednesday.

“Today, Ukrainian production will be busy making precision weapons systems, Ukrainian drones, everything Ukrainian army needs, starting with bullet proof vests and ending with thermographic cameras,” he said.

The support of the US/EU/NATO is essentially the IMF's goal, the banking cabal that demands ever more austerity for the citizens of the countries they control, and more money for them.   They will support any regime, no matter what crimes against humanity they commit, if it furthers their goal of privatization, and more money in the hands of the Global Elite Rich.

Here is the payoff for their support, their reason in a nutshell, taking public mines that once served as property of all the people of the Ukraine, whose profits benefited them all, and auctioning them off to the highest bidder, where evermore those profits will only benefit one rich owner:

Ukrainian authorities are preparing the biggest in 20 years, privatization

In recent months, a number of representatives of Ukrainian authorities announced plans privatization objects under their control. In particular, the deputy head of the Ministry of Energy and Coal Industry of Ukraine Yuriy Zyukov reported that his department is preparing the privatization of 38 mines.

"The direction of our - it is only the privatization of a public auction. Choose the best company. Such 38 mines, which can be put up for privatization of us" - said Zyukov.


These are the people the US and Europe consider "terrorists" and supporting the ethnic cleansing thereof.  I add the text in full, for the words of people striving to be free should never be abridged.

Declaration of Independence of Novorossia

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to come free from such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Regions; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present Ukrainian conquer mode is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these Regions. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

·        The Kiev Regime has refused the Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
·     The Kiev Regime has forbidden it's Governors to pass urgent and crucial laws, unless their action is not delayed until the sovereign consent, but when so suspended, Government pointedly left them without any attention.
·     The Kiev Regime has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Federalisation, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
·     The Kiev Regime has dissolved local authorities and brushed local leaders aside repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness it's invasions on the rights of the people.
·     The Kiev Regime has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing to investigate the massacre of people on Maidan in Kiev and in Trade Union House in Odessa.
·     The Kiev Regime has made Judges dependent on it's Will alone with illegal dissolution of the Constitutional Court.
·     The Kiev Regime has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
·     The Kiev Regime has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our elected authorities.
·     The Kiev Regime has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
·      The Kiev Regime has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving it's Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

1.     For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us;
2.     For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these Regions;
3.     For cutting off our Trade with all our partners;
4.     For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent;
5.     For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Presumption of Innocence;
6.     For transporting LPR and DPR citizens to Kiev to be tried for pretended offences;
7.     For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments;
8.      For suspending our own authorities, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

·        The Kiev Regime has declared us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
·        The Kiev Regime has plundered us, ravaged and burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
·        The Kiev Regime at this time transporting large Armies of neo-Nazis and foreign Mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
·        The Kiev Regime has constrained our fellow conscripted Citizens to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
·         The Kiev Regime has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of each other, sending against us most notorious misanthropes whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. Members of the Kiev Regime whose characters are thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, are unfit to be the rulers of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Kiev brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of a referendum we held and the sovereignty of independent people's republics we announced. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the Republics of Novorossia, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of Republics of Novorossia, solemnly publish and declare, That these Republics are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the Ukrainian, and that all political connection between them and the State of Kiev regime, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent Republics may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

I have already documented the purity tests for employment, the banning of speaking Russian, the absolute ethnic and Nazi hatred on which the illegal Right Sector Regime bases their ethnic cleansing in articles past.  

I cannot reiterate enough:  All the Donbass people want is to live in Peace, multi-culturally, and not beholden to the austerity of the European model, not persecuted for having even a drop of Russian blood.


My friend Nelly reports that book burning is now epidemic.  Starting with any books on Communism, by Marx or Lenin, it expanded from Kiev outward to include any tome, on any subject written in Russian.  Remember that the eastern half of Ukraine was once Russia, and keep in mind that most of the people speak Russian as a second language, if not their first language.  

Works of science or math, schoolbooks, literature, art, philosophy, all destroyed forever to History because of rabid ethnic hatred.

They don't want to just mass expel or kill the people, they want to eradicate every bit of evidence they ever existed within their borders.  Ethnic.  Cleansing.

Starting small:

 photo f0b507a9-65d0-4fdb-ba34-b34e66a306bd.png

Writ large:

One cannot hear this without echoes of the Nazi Book Burnings; echoes all the more pointed because the Right Sector idolizes Ukrainian Nazi Stepan Bandera and all he stood for.

But book burning is the least when the cost of human misery and murder is tallied.

Donetsk and Lugansk and some kilometres around them are the only areas not under Right Sector control.  The right still holds Donetsk's airport, though.  She says there are many tanks and military vehicles surround Donetsk.

Nelly reports this morning:

"Today the protesters made an attack to capture the airport where the Ukrainian Nationalist (Right Sector) troops are blocked.

I live nearby. We wanted to go to the cafe but soldiers didn't let us go. He said: "Girls, where are you going? You don't want to live?" Mostly I liked how he kindly said, "Girls!" There was a lot of firing from different types of weapons. Now it's peaceful."



UPDATE 11:46 EDT    

Just now
Here has been a great explosion near my place
The fight is going on


just now I saw an anti-aircraft gun set on the crossing in 50 metres fom my house! Just now. I can't take a pic - they don't allow but send you a pic from the net


20 of her close friends have left already, to the safety of Russia.  She estimates that the number of refugees is high, and growing, "Half million at least may be more - people mostly go to Russia and the Crimea."  She adds the streets are mostly empty in the evenings.  The DNR - Donetsk People's Republic - holds the city, save the airport, but they are surrounded and fear that bombing from the air may begin, as it has in smaller eastern cities that once were also free.  "They have so many more weapons than we do."

These numbers seem to be substantiated by Time who reported back in June that over 5,000 had left from just the city of Luhansk for the safety of Russia.

Contrary to the fear-mongering and red-baiting of the pro-Maiden press in the US and Europe, they have gotten no help from Russia at all.  No money.  No weapons.  In fact they are trying to pay their soldiers to support their families 1000$ a month, but that too may not last while they are surrounded and cut off.  Store shelves, as pictured to the left are growing empty.

In Kramtorsk, where people walked freely under the so-called "rebels" - shopped, visited, went to work and church?  The streets stand empty under the Ukrainian Nationalist's "liberation" of them.  In plain language, when the Fascists came, all that were not killed ran for their lives, effectively executing the Ethnic Cleansing they sought.  Its is now empty of the residents who have always called it home, wiped clean for the Nazi Fascists to fill with "their own kind."

American photographer Patrick Lancaster gives an eyewitness account of Kramtorsk's genocide.

It’s kind of strange, because in the last five days of the bombing and shelling, we haven’t seen a single militia compound that has actually been hit. Every building that we’ve seen being hit by the Ukrainian mortars have been civilian buildings. We personally have seen over 40 different civilian buildings bombed, that includes a school, an orphanage – we were in an orphanage the day before yesterday that was hit – and a lot of large apartment buildings have been hit . Some of the apartment buildings – it’s not like the Ukrainian army missed the their target – [quite the opposite], the same [apartment] buildings when they were bombed, they hit them very hard [repeatedly]. We spoke to one woman who said that in the night a few days ago her apartment building was hit with ten different mortars.


But, in an addition to civilian homes that have been hit, they are targeting the infrastructure of the town as well. Sometimes the water doesn’t work, because I believe they’ve hit some of the water pumping stations. Yesterday afternoon we went to a gas station that was hit… Actually, it was twice the day prior – once in the afternoon and once in the evening.

The vast majority of the shelling has hit civilian homes.

He also speaks to the Russian myth, and the terror the citizens are being subjected to by the oppressive Nationalist Ukrainian Fascists.
Since the bombing started, the sentiment has gone: “What is Poroshenko doing? Why is he killing us?

Why is our president murdering our people?”

(Re:  Putin) People are kind of thinking: “What is he waiting for? Why isn’t the Russian government helping us?”

The official death toll of the latest offenses in the south and eastern regions is 478 civilians - note that they use a very liberal use of combatants, thus negating many men of any age.  
“In the area of the operation in eastern Ukraine, 478 civilians have died, including 30 women and seven children,” he said.

According to Lazoryshynets , a further 1,392 people were injured in the fighting, with 104 women and 14 children among them.

“Two hundred and seventy-nine currently remain in hospital,” he added.

By their account:  "Disregard of civilians by Kiev troops saw the number of Ukrainian refugees fleeing to Russia reaching 110,000 people, while 54,400 others were displaced within Ukraine.  By resident accounts, anecdotally - those numbers are much higher.

Ukrainian Mother Protects Child During Bomb Raid

Read the chilling language of the Directive approved by Poroshenko. They want to get the mines, and "decimate" anyone who is Russian; noting that anyone in the Donbass region who didn't leave their own home is considered an enemy. That is ethnic cleansing of the area for an ethnically and ideologically "pure" state.  "Anyone who tries to resist shall be executed on the spot."  "guarded by units who are considered to be ideologically safe"

Сonfidential document on Ukraine by the RAND Corporation leaked. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko follows the action plan proposed by RAND analysts.

This Memorandum on the advisable course of action automatically means that peace plan confirmed by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko fails.

 photo a7b1248bbc4a6cc44fe592ccbcad3631.gif

 photo fc5683ba87d7d33b66c54e90ad3519ef.gif

This is a long video showing the war crimes and ethnic cleansing by the Fascist regime.  I know not everyone can view video, nor has the 45 minutes to take it all in.  Beyond the shelling, and the tears, please watch a minute or so at the 27:14 mark of the Right Sector nonchalantly dumping human bodies by the roadside.  Taking them far from the reporters and photographers who might report what they are doing:

Again, at 36:39, showing the grand exodus from the cities in fear of the Fascists, your heart cannot help but break from the woman with babe in arms speaking of how are their men are killed and shot, nor the grandmother crying out how not even the German Nazis were so lawless in war - "not even a German would do what they are doing now!"

"Now they don't pity children, they don't pity anybody!"

The US is, as always, turning a blind eye to the civilian loss of life, the utter destruction of whole cities, the ethnic cleansing of whole areas... it is classic Shock Doctrine, after all, to shock and awe a population, wipe it to a clean slate, and repopulate it with people friendly to predatory Capitalism.

These are not "pro-russian rebels" - these are people who enjoyed a Unified and Multi-cultural, tolerant Ukraine before the coup d'etat by Fascists, Nazis and Right Wing extremists who want martial law and economic control of their lives.  These are people who don't think they should be shot for speaking their own languages, nor sign pledges of allegiance to the fascists to be allowed to work jobs they have always held.  These are people terrified of the austerity European banking has bestowed on their own people.  

These are people longing to be free, who want fair wages and a right to enjoy the benefits of the mines their cities straddle.  

Shell civilians? No problem, says the US.

Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

After all, our interests can purchase your mines, begin fracking, and control the petro-flow to Europe through your lands.  We will even offer bribes for you to kill your own people to make it so as we did when we cleansed our own land of the Native Americans, "Land parcels will be given out for free to the servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and other military formations, as well as to the employees of Interior Ministry and the Security Service of Ukraine that are defending territorial integrity and sovereignty of the country in eastern and southeastern regions of Ukraine."  

SOUND FAMILIAR???  Kill an Indian Donbass resident, and get 10 acres and mule their land!!!

Take all publicly held things, and make them for predatory profit.  

Slavyansk, them marching male citizens off to prison camps, or worse.

 photo ScreenShot2014-07-10at13035PM.png

In the end, my sources say the number killed and displaced are far underestimated by the MSM press.  In fact?  CNN is so inept it placed Slavyansk in the Crimea, which it most assuredly is not.  It is hundreds of miles north of it.

Widescale bombing of civilians, removal of residents to refugee camps, the giving of land to the "conquering" military presence, the "nabka" to Russia for safety, the total devastation of infrastructure... this has gone beyond  Civil War, and can only be called what it is:

Ethnic Cleansing, done by a Terrorist State.

In the end, when an ethnically Ukrainian-pure state is formed, when the rich own everything, and the poor who backed the Fascists are starving in misery... who will cry for them, and ask, "Who let this happen?  Why?  How could this be?"

Not me.  

I cry now, for the people who only want freedom from tyranny; the brave souls standing between Fascism and a Free Ukraine.

Donetsk and Lugansk are the last free cities standing. And we should be backing Novorossia who bravely stated,

"We, therefore, the Representatives of the Republics of Novorossia, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of Republics of Novorossia, solemnly publish and declare, That these Republics are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the Ukrainian, and that all political connection between them and the State of Kiev regime, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent Republics may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."  


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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (6+ / 3-)

    ..the smoker you drink, the player you get....

    by Diane Gee on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 06:49:56 AM PDT

  •  Just a sidenote: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sunspots, sisterkenney

    While dKos has a restriction on Nazi comparisons, I left it in because the party that has taken over has ACTUAL nazi ties.  It is relevant in this case.

    Thanks for reading!

    ..the smoker you drink, the player you get....

    by Diane Gee on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 06:51:29 AM PDT

  •  Putin's Chechen fighters need to get out. (11+ / 0-)

    Mr Putin faces only unpalatable options. Having used state media to propagate the myth of a “genocide” of Russians in eastern Ukraine, he may find dumping the rebels outright to be politically untenable. Mark Galeotti of New York University argues that “Putin can’t just walk away.” On the other hand, escalation through more overt transfers of humanitarian aid, weapons and fighters would leave a struggling Russian economy vulnerable to further Western sanctions and its forces potentially bogged down in an intractable conflict.

    Once Russia stops supplying rebels and foreign fighters, Ukraine can rebuild. Kiev is already giving humanitarian assistance to those in the East who have been displaced by the conflict.

    Taking the Kremlin's side of this conflict is not the solution. Claiming that Ukraine's government is committing genocide is inaccurate and helps Putin's propaganda along.

    The YouTube video you posted was the one the pro-Kremlin new user  posted just yesterday.

    Let Ukraine be free from Putin and the Kremlin. Ukraine must determine its own future. The USSR is no more.

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 07:09:16 AM PDT

    •  Do you know people (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      unfangus, Sunspots, sisterkenney

      who actually live there, or do you just swallow anti-russia propaganda?

      There is no one helping them, not Russian, Chechnyans or any one else.  They are alone and surrounded.

      My friend's husband is Russian, her children 1/2 and 1/2.  They were given notice that her man and kids would be deported.  This is her home and family.  

      This is not about Russia, this is about ethnic cleansing.

      ..the smoker you drink, the player you get....

      by Diane Gee on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 08:06:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, I know people in Ukraine. (11+ / 0-)

        I have written this many times here at dKos. If you are interested in this subject matter, I am surprised you did not see me write this at dKos in the past.

        My friends and relatives in Ukraine want Putin to stop meddling in Ukraine. They want to be free from the Kremlin's domination. The USSR is over. The wall fell many years ago, and Putin has absolutely NO right to Ukraine.

        "Ethnic cleansing" is NOT what is going on there.  This is what RT, one of Putin's Russian-funded propaganda channels, would have people believe, and you bought this.

        I'm sure that in America's Civil War in the 1800's, some people may have thought that Lincoln was bent on killing everyone in the South. No, that is not the case.

        Ukraine is one country. It is a sovereign state and it is not part of Russia. The Russians living in Ukraine have rights, and as soon as Putin stops supplying the Chechen foreign fighters and the rebels with arms, Ukraine can rebuild. Actually, the process of rebuilding has already begun in the areas where the foreign fighters left Ukraine.

        -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

        by sunbro on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 08:31:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  stop the bogus propaganda (10+ / 0-)

    of the fascist Kremlin. Even in Russia many no longer believe it anymore.

    The Russian and Chechen imported "separatists" are losing ground and their days are numbered in their constantly shrinking areas in the South and East Ukraine due to lack of popular support and Russia's realization that it's over.

    The leftist pro-Russian parrots always get the message last - probably will be screeching about nazis and ethnic cleansing 10 years after Ukraine is unified and conflict long forgotten.

  •  Today's usage is just "Ukraine". (7+ / 0-)

    I'm skipping the rest so I can read about separatists using Russian rockets to kill 30 Ukrainians.

    Paraphrasing Mencken, today's republicans are motivated by the haunting fear that somewhere, some black guy may be getting away with something.

    by Inland on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 07:41:30 AM PDT

  •  How well do you know Dmitri? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sunbro, Lawrence, charlatan

    Have you visited him in Ukraine?  Are you sure he is really Ukrainian?

    The Stars and Bars and the red swastika banner are both offerings to the same barbaric god.

    by amyzex on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 07:45:29 AM PDT

  •  You know why this Russian "NAZI!!!!" propaganda (7+ / 0-)

    has been increasing?

    Could it have anything to do with Putin this week meeting with senior Jewish leaders at the Kremlin to discuss dealing with antsemetism and neo-Nazi groups in Russia?

    I saw it mentioned briefly in an RT bulletin but all reference to it seems to have disappeared. May Putin does not want this admission of problems in his own country publicized.

    I always treat Russian allegations as projections of their own activities. Shortly before they invade Ukraine and illegally annexed Crimea, there were photos of leaders of Right Sector helping some rabbis to clean off anti-semetic  graffiti.

    "Come to Sochi, visit the gay clubs and play with the bears" - NOT a Russian advertising slogan.

    by Lib Dem FoP on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 08:15:32 AM PDT

    •  Yes, it's all projection (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sunbro, Lawrence

      Putin comes out as pro-Israel on Gaza, also.  Not real consistent with his Grad rocket firing separatists in Luhansk.  

      Report: Putin praises Goebbels at meeting with Jewish leaders!

      He would know a good propagandist.  

    •  Russian invasion of Ukraine? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Diane Gee, bananapouch1

      If you're calling Crimea "Ukraine", you haven't spent much time there.

      All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry. --Edgar Allan Poe

      by gzodik on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 09:31:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It might be majority Russian-speaking (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sunbro, Lawrence

        But it was an integral part of Ukraine. You can't just invade another country and annex part of its territory based on some historic connotations. The only other major example post WWII was Saddam Hussein invading Kuweit in 1991, and the world's response was strong to it.

        •  That hardly seems comparable. (4+ / 0-)

          I speak Russian, not Ukrainian, so my view could be skewed. But I remember the memorials there to all the Russians who died defending Crimea against the Turks or the British. I didn't see any monuments to Ukrainians.

          And Russia will let the West gain control of Sevastopol about the time we cede Pearl Harbor to China.

          All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry. --Edgar Allan Poe

          by gzodik on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 10:28:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Russia has ties to it. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sunbro, gzodik

            To be absolutely sure (although don't forget about the Tatars either). That does not mean that Putin could just invade the Crimea and take it, anymore than Austria can invade Italy's South Tirol and annex it due to its German-speaking population. I'm not sure whether the West wanted to take Sevastopol (remember that Ukraine is not planning to join NATO now, and full EU accession is at best a very distant prospect).

            I do speak Polish, and not Russian/Ukrainian, so I admit I might be biased in my conceptions of Russia.

          •  We're going to find out (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sunbro, charlatan

            about that.  After this insurgency gets stomped out it seems Kiev is going to present Moscow with a choice:  Russia keeps Crimea but Ukraine goes into NATO, or Russia yields up Crimea and Ukraine stays out of NATO.  In chess this situation is called a queen fork.   Russia gets to decide just how much it loves Crimea versus hates/fears NATO.

            Popular Russian support for keeping Crimea seems to be on a rapid decline:

            "Patriotism spurred by President Vladimir Putin's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea still runs deep in Russia, but the cold reality of paying for the Black Sea region is setting in and threatens to test an economy brought low by Western sanctions.

            "In Tatyana's hometown of Taganrog, the request for hospital workers to sacrifice a day's pay was taken up by only a few - by those people, she says, who wanted to impress their employers.

            ""The bosses informed us of this in June in a tone which made clear they recommended it ... They distributed and asked us to fill out a form for the donation. People started complaining - why should they donate to Crimea?" said Tatyana, 52, who declined to give her surname for fear of retribution.

            ""In our department, not one of us made the donation and our boss understood because she was of the same opinion," she said by telephone."


            "But with the first wave of tourists back in Russia and complaining about bad service and amenities, the 'champagne effect' of feeling that Russia had outwitted the West over Crimea may have started to wear off.

            "Rising prices and stagnating wages may make hundreds more Russians think twice about the government's price tag of between 800 billion and 1 trillion rubles ($23-30 billion) for Crimea, and may come to pose the first real threat to Putin."

            Capital flight from Russia due to Ukraine, Crimea, etc. is already $60 billion in 2014 and could reach $150-200 billion at the current rate.  Which means recession and lots of other economic fun for average Russians.  The ascent-of-Russia narrative is not doing well lately.  

            As for Russian elites, Crimea is a two million person outlier region which is nice to vacation in.  (There was also a land rush after the recent annexation.)  But this Black Sea fleet thing is fiscally and militarily absurd- probably its real primary rationale is that it provides cover to subsidize a large, otherwise economically inviable, ethnic Russian colony.  Secondarily the fleet reminds of the Russian wars with Tartars, Turks, Circassians, British, Germans, and Georgians in the region.  Iow, it makes a sunken investment fallacy argument, and (above all else) an argument of pride.

            Maybe Russian elites will decide that Crimea is to their real interests roughly what Puerto Rico is to the United States.

            Of course, this is not even going matter when Belarus shears out of Moscow's orbit and goes over to the EU.  When that happens there will be a popular Russian imperialist freakout for the ages.

            •  They will not (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gzodik, Sunspots, sisterkenney

              give up their only warm water port.  Its absolutely mind boggling how you can play Russia as the aggressor here.

              Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

              ..the smoker you drink, the player you get....

              by Diane Gee on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 12:49:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Do some actual research for a change (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Tony Situ, Lawrence

                No one asked Russia to give up Sevastopol: the most recent lease agreement extends to 2042. Sevastopol is also not Russia's only port on the Black Sea. Russia has been busy expanding its other facility at Novorossiysk.

                What's absolutely mind-boggling is that you think Russia's former client states are obligated to let Russia choose their alliances. If Ukraine wants to be a part of the EU or NATO that's Ukraine's decision to make. Russia has its own special agreement with NATO, and the idea of Russia someday joining NATO (as well as the EU) has been floated numerous times.

                Putin's 'concerns' about NATO are phony, driven by notions of a return to great power status that play well with his base. His turn away from Europe politically has been entirely self-serving.

              •  Funny how (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                what you perceive as relevant history begins at 1945.

                The ethnic Russian homeland is still a lot smaller than the Russia on the 2009.  Have you ever considered that all those peoples and territories previously and currently held by Russia by conquest might not want to be governed by Russia?  Not just what we all accept as countries of eastern Europe.  And maybe, Russia being such a regional heavyweight prone to incivil means of retaining conquest and hegemony, these groups might want to stick together while (re)establishing themselves?

                Maybe you can explain to me the legitimate grounds on which Russia claims and rules or has proxies rule the following:  East Prussia, Transnistria, East Karelia, Kola Peninsula, the whole northern Caucasus including Chechenya, Tartarstan, and Siberia generally.  

            •  And what are we getting out of this? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sunspots, Diane Gee

              World War III?

              All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry. --Edgar Allan Poe

              by gzodik on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 01:38:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  A lot of annoyance (0+ / 0-)

                and Russian tantrums and some costs.  And an incremental internal change inside Russia to a more pragmatic, truthful, humble, relevant, respectable, and productive assessment of themselves as they unwind their deep internal problems.  Oh, and some liberal democracy.

  •  here is one of those brave Russian volunteers (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sunbro, killjoy, Lawrence, charlatan

    fighting the Ukrainian nazis:

    •  And that's a guy you always see guarding the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Russian leaders of the separatists aka terrorists that are "fighting fascism" in eastern Ukraine.

      Yep, I wonder if the diary's author might think twice about the situation there if people with large swastika tattoos on their chests are pretending to be "anti-fascists".

      Probably not, as she seems way too invested in a false narrative.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 12:02:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Read the comments (0+ / 0-)

      This is an unsourced picture, and many say he is Ukrainian.  Utter propagandist tripe.

      ..the smoker you drink, the player you get....

      by Diane Gee on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 12:50:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oh wonderful, (6+ / 0-)

    an aggregation of the usual tropes, hyperbole, selective facts and fictions, exaggerations, fallacies, and other elements of Russian propaganda.   And at bottom so trivial.

    I had a relative at the Third Battle of Kharkov, where the komisars herded many thousands civilians out of their basements and into the main streets at gunpoint in front of advancing German tank columns.  The Germans had no time, gasoline, or ammunition to spare for anyone but the Red Army units they were fighting and the result was thousands of Ukrainian civilians horribly crushed to death under tank treads.  When the city was captured the Germans and locals killed every komisar they could find.

    Now, that's what passes regionally for real inhumanity, horror, and tragedy.  What's going on now is small potatos, a bitter Slavic village feud, by comparison.  The Nazi that actually haunts Russian dreams is not the one encountered on the Ukrainian steppe seventy years ago, and it's not the present nobodies called Svoboda.  It's the one within themselves which they have never exorcised which they fear and hate- and project on everyone else.

    "Meanwhile, a report by the human rights group Amnesty International has accused separatists of abuses in the three-month conflict.

    "The group said it had found "graphic and compelling evidence of savage beatings and other torture" by pro-Russian groups in eastern Ukraine.

    "The Amnesty report, Abductions and Torture in Eastern Ukraine, said that protesters and journalists had been targeted, and hundreds of people had been abducted.

    "Pro-government forces had also committed a smaller number of abuses, Amnesty said."

  •  tried to understand this diary. but got/lost.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    decent wages don't eliminate jobs. Republicans eliminate jobs; and workers, and prospects, and then excuse it all and call for more austerity. there is no end to their ignorant, arrogant avarice. only political dinosaurs support their treachery.

    by renzo capetti on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 08:36:01 AM PDT

  •  I uprated your tip jar (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gzodik, Diane Gee, unfangus, sisterkenney

    to counter an unnecessary HR. I don't know who this alexandr_rogers is and would like to know more about the provenance of the Rand document. I think your reading of the situation is essentially correct although this presentation is a bit sensationalist.

    The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

    by Azazello on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 08:47:42 AM PDT

    •  I wondered (5+ / 0-)

      about the veracity of the Rand document as well... but since my Ukrainian friends (3 verified) said it was printed in their local news as verifiable at home, I decided to include it.  

      I am pretty well stunned at how many liberals here, support a far-right neo-con group bombing leftist civilians.

      I guess the US anti-commie brainwashing still makes people Pavlov-jerk in response and support right-wing monsters.  These leaders are the worst of their 1% there.  

      My Dad spoke Ukrainian, Russian and Polish - learned English in school.  He was a lifelong Dem and would never have supported these people.  His parents fled monsters like Banderas.

      ..the smoker you drink, the player you get....

      by Diane Gee on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 09:04:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think I'm starting to understand (6+ / 0-)

        why there is support among "liberals" for regime change in Ukraine.
        1) Three generations of Cold War rhetoric makes it easy to demonize Putin and Russia.
        2) Putin's gay-bashing has also helped to make him a boogey-man. Few here understand that Russians regard Ukrainians as bigoted rednecks. If you think Russians are "socially conservative," wait 'til see what the other guys are like.
        3) Loyalty to the President is a factor too. Folks don't want their President labeled a neocon, even if he employs actual neocons in his administration and pursues neocon policies of destabilization and regime change.

        The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

        by Azazello on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 09:26:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You and your dad (5+ / 0-)

        should have realized a thing or two about this supposed order of the world some time ago.  My East German friends say the crushing of the Prague Spring- yes, 1968- was the political bankrupcy of Communism.  Much as you'd like to think actual Naziism still exists, Communism actually undid it in Eastern Europe.  Having completed that, it ran out of legitimate purposes, leading to the Prague Spring crushing for imperial Russian purposes.  Communism existed another 20some years but was already dead.

        Every government during a war is Rightist.  People like you additionally impute a reactionary nature to the Yatseniuk and Poroshenko governments that doesn't actually exist.  And some sort of progressive nature to the pro-Russian separatists that doesn't exist, either.  To read the sort of pronouncements associated with the latter, e.g. Dugin's, is in fact to be transported back to somewhere between 1870 and the 1950s in the West- his screed on Novorussiya reads an embarrassing lot like sorts of things written by German nationalists in the 1930s when Hitler took back the Rheinland, Saarland, Memeland, Sudetenland, Austria.  In fact, Dugin's position is or was at an Institute of Conservative Studies.

        The current rebellion in Donetsk/Luhansk is a conservative one, fundamentally reliant on arms and violence, and it intends to deliver as much of Ukraine as it can to authoritarian government- Putin's- with a mafia/robber baron reality.  The rebellion of November 2013-February 2014 centered in Kiev was a liberal one, largely peaceable, and some Ukrainian nationalist/ultranationalist elements attached themselves to it.  (The liberal nature of the Maidan uprising is proven by the immediate reversal of the 2010 changes to the Ukrainian constitution, which made the government authoritarian.)  The ultranationalists are now doing the one thing they're good for: expending themselves against the militant conservatives and Russian nationalists on the battlefield.

        The world has changed since 1968.  Your hatreds by proxy are dated.  And that's exactly what the present war is about- about venting hatreds and settling scores, forcing people to accept how obsolete their worldviews are, and allowing them to let go of the wrongs of the past as guide to the future.  

  •  The limitations of Russian propaganda in Ukraine (4+ / 0-)

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 09:05:48 AM PDT

  •  Here's an Economist piece (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Diane Gee, sunbro

    that's a little more balanced than most of the Western press.

    All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry. --Edgar Allan Poe

    by gzodik on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 09:21:37 AM PDT

  •  Gawd, I've rarely seen so much false, hateful (8+ / 0-)

    propaganda stuffed into one diary here at DailyKos... and I've been around here for quite some time...

    You should get off the Kremlin-financed media and CT website addiction - it is no better than being addicted to Faux News and the corresponding RW hate machine websites.

    People are dying in Ukraine because quasi-fascist Russia has launched an undeclared war against Ukraine.  People are being kidnapped, tortured, killed, and murdered because of exactly the type of vile, paranoid, hateful propaganda that you are spreading with this diary.


    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 12:19:01 PM PDT

  •  Human Rights Watch says the opposite of this diary (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    charlatan, sunbro, AnnetteK, killjoy, Lawrence
    Anti-Kiev insurgents are using beatings and kidnappings to send the message that anyone who doesn’t support them had better shut up or leave. These forces are out of control, abusing people at will.

    Human Rights Watch is a credible organization with a history of activism that goes back decades. It's an organization I support.

  •  Is this snark? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    killjoy, AnnetteK, Tony Situ, Lawrence

    Because if it isn't you've seriously jumped the shark. C'mon, I recognize that photo of the mom covering her kid from this week's news out of Israel!

    When did self-described progressives become such cynical hacks?

  •  Luv how the diary's title refers to *The* Ukraine. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Putinists call Ukraine "The Ukraine" (when they're not calling it "Novarussia") rather than just "Ukraine" because they want to frame the discussion with "The Ukraine" simply being a peculiar region of eastern Europe rather than an actual nation state.  For if people think of it as just a region rather than a nation, it makes it easier to get people to go along with Putin's annexing parts of it as he sees fit.

    •  I call it that (0+ / 0-)

      because my Father who was from Poland, and spoke polish, ukrainian and russian did.  Habit.

      Idiotic assumption on your part, both on my linguistics and the motivation behind it.

      ..the smoker you drink, the player you get....

      by Diane Gee on Fri Jul 11, 2014 at 08:37:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What's up with the recent spate of Kremlin (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AnnetteK, killjoy, aimeehs

    propagandist diaries?

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